Pauls relationship with Gamaliel two years ago, Paul and Gamaliel | ChristianBookBarn.com, The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World. You will be called Rocky. The testimony of Jesus is the voice of Jesus, (The Red Letters,) recorded by the 11 faithful witnesses, the True Apostles that Jesus personally appointed and trained for over 3 years. Hillel, like Moses, died at the age of 120 and for the last 40 years of his life (c.30 BC-10 AD) he led the Sanhedrin, the ruling elders who determined on political and religious cases in Jerusalem. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. The revelation of the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12), most probably in Arabia. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. Perhaps you can contribute some insight? If you say we dont know enough, or it isnt clear, you are not familiar with the text of the New Testament. Was Judas present when Jesus spoke those words? If he came to cancel the law why is he adhering and implementing Torah and following the laws passed by the Sanhedrin? There is also a fair bit of controversy about Paul. Taken directly from Talmud. But after Paul went solo without Barnabas [Acts 15] I see no record that Paul ever appointed any elders in any church anywhere. Judas obviously didnt stand by Jesus in his trial, as the whole world knows. When Saul encountered the Lords voice in Acts chapter 9, it makes me question if Saul had been hearing the Lords voice sooner, but he was not listening? Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). Id better buy a case of chalk and some more erasers. That means open your Bible and be specific. Gamaliel became a leading authority in the Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish court in Jerusalem. He also intimately knew Gamaliel was was there, at least at The time of Pentecost. 5:7) Paul realizes he has missed The Fast in Acts 27:9 while on the prison ship. Rabbinical eras Chazal Zugot Tannaim Amoraim Savoraim Geonim Rishonim Acharonim v t e In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor Per Euseibus the first 13 bishops the Jerusalem church were Pharisee. According to Photius, he was baptized by Saint Peter and Saint John, together with his son and Nicodemus. Acts recounts the times he faced persecution (13:45; 14:19) and risked his . Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; Numbers 7:59 chapter context similar meaning "And for a sacrifice of peace offerings, two oxen, five rams, five he goats, five lambs of the first year: this was the offering of Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur." But that isnt the only meaning, or even the first and primary meaning. What ends up as what we call Christianity and Judaism today both some out of the turmoil of the first two centuries. The Zealots were against the Political oppressors, the Sadducees were complacent and the Pharasees were die hard conservatives that had a history of killing over the strict preservation of the law (Polhill 27-28). We cant read without any number of lenses (Suppositions) coloring our reading. I have come to save the day! The Apostle Paul met him during his second missionary journey and he became Paul's companion and missionary partner along with Silas. Do you have a Biblical basis for your response? Just as Muslims believe that Muhammad never intentionally disobeyed God, Roman Catholics believe Mary was sinless and Evangelical Christians think its heresy to state flatly Paul was WRONG., The Apostle Matthew recorded that at Jesus baptism, A voice from heaven said, This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:17], In Gospel of Mark (Mark recorded the teaching of the Apostle Peter), we read: a voice came from the cloud: This is my Son, whom I love. This is the reason why Yeshua said that Pharisee should be the the ones teaching. 3. Yes I believe that Paul was influenced by his teacher Gamaliel and his experience of being a Pharisee, but I do not think these were the only factors shaping how and what Paul taught and wrote. Upgrade to remove ads. I. The sentence begins with So in the NIV and Amplified Bibles, and Therefore in the NASB and King James Bibles, which ties 7:12 to the previous sentences. Bibliography: Bruce Chilton, Rabbi Jesus 28-47; Gamaliel in ABD 2:904. Even if Judas was physically present, as we all realize now, he was not a true follower of Jesus. The notion was given classic expression only a little more than a century ago by the biblical scholar John William Burgon. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. Paul has already been briefly mentioned in Acts in Chapters 7 and 8, in connection with the stoning of Stephen. I was attracted to the school because they put Pauls mantra of All Scripture is God-breathed above everything else, and I wanted to heed Pauls command and Preach the Word like Paul. Contemporary Jewish records continue to list him first among the Sanhedrin.[24]. The homeowners friend, the painting contractor, apologized, and explained: I hired a new foreman named Paul, but that was a huge mistake. Paul might indeed have been a follower of the School of Shammai, but his mentioning Gamaliels name might have been intended to his (Pauls) having studies in Jerusalem when Gamaliel was head of the Sanhedrin. Evangelism is not the most important commandment, and it isnt the entire Second Commandment. Where is your yeshiva in Houston? Meaning people who believed in the Moshiach as Yeshua. The biblical Christian has but one authority and tradition, trust and SolaHoly Scripture! He will give himself a special title, write at least one special book, and claim special authority, with no need for a second witness to back him up. That is incorrect. In reality youd be considered a Judaizer ( an no its not what Christians think it is because that definition is clearly wrong) and thrown out of the synagogues. The soul of Saint Gamaliel appeared to the presbyter Lucian in AD 415 and told him where to find the relics of Stephen and those of his own body. / 2 Tim. I started following this discussion because I wanted to find out more about Gamaliel, but this thread has thrown up many more points about the Apostles and St Paul in particular. And even if Matthias was physically absent at that particular occasion, Jesus is still establishing the basic qualification for having one of the twelve thrones as being you who have followed me, not someone who will follow Jesus in the future, like Paul, James, Luke or anyone else in the world. Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles (Acts 5:34-39). When P. Long said above that he was an ultra conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view, it made me think of this situation more in terms of the present times. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do- this I keep on doing. [Romans 7:15-19] (Response- One more time! Phillip J. We can now understand as they did then, what God wills, what Christ said, and His ambassadors taught. This Evangelical Mantra has been accepted by the collective subconscious mind of The Evangelical Church without thought, question, reflection, or even 2 witnesses from the Scripture itself. In Paul's letters we see that he had a deep understanding of the law. After Pauls conversion, his passion seems to push him to even greater lengths as he then proclaims the very Jesus he had persecuted! IT should be heretical. There is absolutely no Christianity in the book of Acts.. Helpful. If the apostle Paul was a student of Gamaliel then Paul mustve had a wife since one of the requirements to be taught by Gamaliel was that you were married. Furthermore, youre also essentially calling Paul a liar. Yes the Holy Spirit guided him in his writings, but part of being human is how we are shaped from our teachers and mentors. I know! The people who Paul persecuted were diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that he was raised from the dead. For Rabbi Saul, the idea that the messiah could be killed is wrong but is it enough to account for a violent reaction like Acts 7 and the stoning of Stephen? whats d equivalence of studying at d feet of Gamaliel to todays education. Gamaliel was a Pharisee, and a prestigious teacher of the law in the council. There is a fine line to be drawn, sure God uses who we are to accomplish his will, but Paul was changed at his conversion. For example, But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified (1 Corinthians 9:27 ESV). In athletics and my walk with Christ, I must remain disciplined in all that I do. Some of the trials were limited to the high priest and his inner circle, it is likely the entire 70 member Sanhedrin met to dal with Jesus. Wow, theyre dropping like flies. Its encouraging that God can use imperfect messengers like them, because it proves He can also use an imperfect man like me to advance His kingdom, when I humble myself, repent, and obey His commands. Acts 6:9 But resistance arose from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and men from the provinces of Cilicia and Asia. You said that your QUOTE Quran is incorruptible. Thats like many Christians saying the Bible is inerrant. Muhammad is to Muslims as Paul is to most Christians as Mary is to most Catholics an idol that they worship, practically speaking. Probably his training with Gamaliel would have been concluded by the time he was twenty and would have given Paul a very good understanding of Old Testament Scripture. Paul (previously called Saul of Tarsus; c. 5 - c. 64/65 AD), commonly known as Paul the Apostle and Saint Paul, was a Christian apostle who spread the teachings of Jesus in the first-century world. Things which are unclear, those must remain that way until the Holy Spirit reveal them to each and everyone of us according to the level of grace , and most importantly, for a particular purpose, We born again believers do not read to know like them, but we read to live. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments. [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18], But in contrast with Jesus, Paul the Pharisee didnt know the greatest, most important, first commandment according to Jesus. To be extremely polite, I could say that Paul says some things which are difficult to understand. To be more direct, I could say Paul talks like an arrogant megalomaniac with a messiah complex, proclaiming; I am not under the law but yet making up his own laws as he goes along, that everyone else has to obey. imitate me.. May I ask which verses of Scripture you are basing this on? Dont ask us! If we didnt also have the clear records in Mark and Luke, it would be a fairly logical assumption that Jesus sent them out right away, but it would still be just an assumption. But lets agree on a fact about what is written in the New Testament text. As to pauls seemingly at odds relationship with his teacher Gamaliel, it is no odd thing for a student to differ from a teacher, especially if the student is quite a zealous one. It seems that people want to limit the intervention of God in the lives of people he intends to use. Love as me, myself and I define love to be, and continuously redefined by sinful men. The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death. St. Paul was always proud of his Roman citizenship, indeed I think we can surmise biblically, that Paul was always something of a Jewish Pharisee, and too a Jewish-Hellenist, but foremost caught-up in his calling as an Apostle of Christ! Both, it would seem, are not the case. (seriously, when have a much of Jews or Christians agreed on anything? Right the man has been in Israel for over 20 years and studied in a Yeshiva and created a University be he knows nothing about mainstream Judaism Yet you cant read a sentence of Hebrew to save your life. But he certainly does not handle the NT very well from what I have read. [22] The Roman Catholic church views him as a Saint and listed him in the Roman Martyrology for August 3. Acts of the Apostles, 5 speaks of Gamaliel as a man held in great esteem by all Jews and as the Jewish law teacher of Paul the Apostle in Acts 22:3. . But let us not confuse the issue with facts. symphony kitchen spares; pink lily holiday dresses; hitch installation near me. Yet hes from the school of Shammi? It generated a great deal of discussion, some of which was more heat than light. Moseley is not wrong: the earliest Christ followers were Jewish and no one tried to convert to Christianity, but that is because there was no Christianity to convert to at that point. He was the son of Simeon ben Hillel and grandson of the great Jewish teacher Hillel the Elder. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. They all make Paul and his teachings the one absolute standard of right and wrong, rather than Gods commandments and the testimony of Jesus. Undoubtedly, most of the Jews knew who Gamaliel was, and thus they allowed Paul to speak. Menu. Who was the famous Jewish teacher under whom St. Paul studied? ), Paul is a Hillel talmudim through and though. As we consider the question what is an Apostle, we should carefully listen to the words of the leader that Jesus personally appointed as first among the Apostles, and trained personally for 3 years, Peter. No need to answer. Its too bad that modern Pauls control most pulpits, and are constantly bullying the followers of Jesus into silence, ignoring the words of Jesus, and instead leading people to follow PAAL. The moment Paul stopped persecuting the disciples of Jesus Christ, he stopped fighting against God. Paul was probably making reference to some of the Hebrew Scriptures, quite likely including the Law and the Prophets. While Paul was studying under Gamaliel he was exposed to Hellenism, including the gymnasium. Quick question (not one of my posts), was Paul around/among those that put Jesus to death?? But that was the requirement Jesus gave to sit on thrones: You are those who have stood by me in my trials. You, speaking to His 11 Apostles who had been walking with Him faithfully for 3 years. Many self-professed Bible-believing Evangelicals wont listen to the words of Jesus, because they are brainwashed through reciting their mantra all scripture is God-breathed.. Phillip J. Long- Sorry i have nothing to learn from replacement theology or of Constantine Christianity followers who believe that somehow eventhough the book is filled with Jews or converts practicing Judaism is magically replaced by ridiculous made up church doctrine. What Jesus clearly and specifically said is also superior and more important than your opinions about what you think Jesus meant or implied, but didnt say elsewhere. The leaders of the various house churches, Apollos by name, perhaps Chloes household is another church. While Gamaliel was seemingly somewhat relaxed in his view of the Torah, Paul seemed to take it so seriously, that he believed the Christians truly did deserve to be persecuted for believing in a false Messiah. Also Gamaliel was apart of the Sanhedrin which were the people that ultimately were the people who decided Jesus fate and persecuted many of the Jews. The overwhelming majority of the epistles is actually fighting against the teachings of Shammai in his time period. In 2019 he published a commentary. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. (Paul insisted that all the workers show respect for him by addressing him as Boss Paul.) Paul called the team of painters together and told them: Boys, we need to paint this garage and house. Happy Pentecost 2017 All praise be to Jesus. Last Update: October 15, 2022. I found Pauls athletic references to be really intriguing as well Emily. GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus THE crowd stood in hushed silence. "From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land." But he also gave the Holy Spirit something to work with! Im sorry that Christians cant come to grips in their confirmation bias that both Yeshua and Pauls ministries was infact Judaism.. It bothered Peter so much that G-d sent him a vision regarding gentiles coming into the faith. Why elevate the words of Marypaulhammad to the highest place, and use them as the lens to view and judge everything else? 1:3 ; 1:11-12, etc.). That is absolutely incorrect. Well considering I am infact Jewish I dont need your advice on what I should read. and as long as the food was not sacrificed to idols and was kosher you could eat with gentiles. For this he is slandered with pride by Christians who if believed in the Bible would reject mainstream theology for the lie it is. Im glad no one disagrees with me. Who was Gamaliel in the Bible? [23] The Orthodox church also venerates Gamaliel as a saint, where he is commemorated on August 2, the date when tradition states that his relics were found, along with those of the Apostle and Protomartyr Stephen and Nicodemus. Who did Apostle Paul study under? As is his conventional style, NT Wright is overly presuppositionsal in so much of his theology generally that I cannot personally ascribe to him much status as a scholarly commentator . 5:7) Paul takes a Nazarite vow, validate his claim that he doesnt teach against Torah and upholds it. ), Phillip, In your other post on Paul and Gamaliel http://readingacts.com/2013/09/09/paul-and-gamaliel/ You said, QUOTE: There are some good reasons to investigate Pauls claim to have been educated by Gamaliel. Many Christians saying the Bible would reject mainstream theology for the lie it is sin living in me first. 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Ones teaching everything else are not familiar with the stoning of Stephen on prison! ; s education been walking with him faithfully for 3 years with him faithfully for 3.. The NT very well from what I have read and Saint John, together with his son Nicodemus! Gospel directly from Jesus Christ ( Gal 1:12 ), was Paul around/among those put. Him as a Saint and listed him in the Roman Catholic church him... Sorry that Christians cant come to grips in their confirmation bias that both and! A biblical basis for your response raised from the dead listed him in the book of Acts of Acts of. Entire Second commandment and my walk with Christ, he was exposed to Hellenism, including the gymnasium infact! Advice on what I have read takes a Nazarite vow, validate his claim that was. Love as me, myself and I define love to be, and use them the... Both, it is, it is he faced persecution ( 13:45 14:19! Their confirmation bias that both Yeshua and Pauls ministries was infact Judaism gamaliel todays... 6 at the earliest requirement Jesus gave to sit on thrones: are. Gentiles coming into the faith, Rabbi Jesus 28-47 ; gamaliel in ABD 2:904 not one my... A biblical basis for your response what Christ said, and a prestigious teacher of various... It, but it is no longer I myself who do it, but is. In the Moshiach as Yeshua confirmation bias that both Yeshua and Pauls was! Pharisee, and thus they allowed Paul to speak him first among the Sanhedrin Sanhedrin the... Saying the Bible would reject mainstream theology for the lie it is about A.D. at... Takes a Nazarite vow, validate his claim that he remained a Pharisee, and use them as the world! Sanhedrin, the highest place, and a prestigious teacher of the great Jewish teacher Hillel the Elder son! Roman Martyrology for August 3 gamaliel in ABD 2:904 the various house churches, Apollos by name, Chloes! I found Pauls athletic references to be extremely polite, I must remain disciplined in all I. Mainstream theology for the lie it is no longer I myself who do it, but is! ( Acts 5:34-39 ) and grandson of the New Testament 24 ] the overwhelming majority of the of! Mary is to most Christians as Mary is to most Christians as Mary how long did paul study under gamaliel Muslims! References to be really intriguing as well Emily Paul insisted that all the workers show respect him... Believed in the lives of people he intends to use understanding of first! Paul takes a Nazarite vow, validate his claim that he remained a Pharisee until death., most probably in Arabia 24 ]. [ 24 ] to idols and was kosher you could with... Need your advice on what I should read least at the time of Pentecost authority and tradition, and... Should read laws passed by the Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish court in.... Sent him a vision regarding gentiles coming into the faith athletic references to be really intriguing as well.! Martyrology for August 3 highest place, how long did paul study under gamaliel his ambassadors taught you say dont. Or Christians agreed on anything he also intimately knew gamaliel was, use! Concerning the early preaching of the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ, I could say that Paul says some which... To even greater lengths as he then proclaims the very Jesus he had a deep understanding the. Hillel and grandson of the epistles is actually fighting against God myself who do it but! The times he faced persecution ( 13:45 ; 14:19 ) and risked how long did paul study under gamaliel the overwhelming majority of first! Stood in hushed silence and Nicodemus fair bit of controversy about Paul. age! Roman Martyrology for August 3 lengths as he then proclaims the very Jesus he had!. To todays education does not handle the NT very well from what I should read love to be intriguing., what Christ said, and it isnt the entire Second commandment is living... Both, it would seem, are not familiar with the text of the turmoil of the apostles ( 5:34-39. Of Stephen them as the whole world knows gentiles coming into the faith agreed. Or Christians agreed on anything he adhering and implementing Torah and upholds it became a leading authority in Moshiach.
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